bricology ([info]bricology) wrote,
@ 2008-11-01 17:55:00
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Current mood: hopeful
Entry tags:debussy for oboe and harp

A History of Bad Ideas
Given that Hallowe'en here in San Francisco was largely rained-out last night, and that none of the events available to us were overly compelling, we decided to stay home. While K. made a supremely excellent pumpkin curry, I carved a jack o'lantern with the face of an oni.



As the rain piddled down outside, we ate and watched an utterly fascinating documentary on PBS about the history and evolution of the mythical figures of Satan, the devil and other related archetypes.

Now, I consider myself to be relatively educated about Judeo-Christian mythology, but I learned more from this one hour presentation than I had ever known before about this particular aspect of it. It was noteworthy not only for its subject matter, but also in the way it demonstrated that the entire concept of dualism in Western religions is an artifact of Zoroastrianism, taken to a preposterous extreme.

Simply put: this one-hour show should be sufficient to cure any open-minded viewer of belief in Yahwehism.

Two things about the presentation itself struck me:

1. As a BBC presentation, it was probably aired during prime-time in Britain. That shouldn't be an amazing thing, but it is to this god-weary American.

2. The only way such a thing could be shown in the US is (a) on PBS and (b) in the context of Hallowe'en (any normal time would smack of blasphemy).

Thankfully, the show is on GoogleVideo, and can be watched in its entirety here. Hugely recommended!



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[info]odin_za_vseh
2008-11-02 01:47 am UTC (link)
That pumpkin is a work of art, sir!

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[info]bricology
2008-11-02 02:06 am UTC (link)
Why thank you! It's a terrible photo, but that's about what I expected from a hand-held shot in total darkness.

Now, surely you did something fabulous on Hallowe'en (unlike preemptive party-poopers such as I).

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[info]odin_za_vseh
2008-11-02 02:31 am UTC (link)
I desperately wanted to carve a pumpkin this year, but didn't get to because (are you ready for this one?) the grocer's ran out weeks before Halloween!

But that's alright. I was a consumptive (and already dead from it as we found out at the end) and limping butler in a murder mystery!



Unfortunately, you can't see the excellent blood spatters in the folds of my handkerchief in the photo.

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[info]bricology
2008-11-02 07:35 am UTC (link)
"I desperately wanted to carve a pumpkin this year, but didn't get to because (are you ready for this one?) the grocer's ran out weeks before Halloween!"

Can we record this as The Great Pumpkin Famine of Aught-Eight?

"But that's alright. I was a consumptive (and already dead from it as we found out at the end) and limping butler in a murder mystery!"

Well, I do hope it was someone else's blood! Splendid picture, by the way.

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[info]lord_whimsy
2008-11-02 03:53 am UTC (link)

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[info]bricology
2008-11-02 05:27 am UTC (link)
Kelly and I laughed and laughed and laughed!

An oni in the flesh? -or a visit from Lord Mephistopheles H. Whimsy?

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[info]lord_whimsy
2008-11-03 04:42 am UTC (link)
Hard to be ominous with a skewed collar and a pug nose, I'll admit.

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[info]lupoleboucher
2008-11-02 05:28 am UTC (link)
Pretty good video; though the politics thing was completely absurd (the most obvious modern witch hunt: seeing racists everywhere), and I can't believe they put that silly tub of lard John Alee on. I wish someone would do a detailed popular expose on the Cathars and Bogomils.

Also, super nice pumpkin!

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[info]bricology
2008-11-02 07:28 am UTC (link)
Not sure what you're referring to on the "politics" issue, but I totally agree that the "Satanists" they chose to interview were hardly the sort I would've preferred. I have a certain amount of affinity for proper Satanism, and miss good, honest charlatans like Anton LaVey.

The story of the Cathars/Albigensians is certainly worthy of a scholarly video of its own. Bogomils, I don't know so much about.

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[info]lupoleboucher
2008-11-04 03:27 am UTC (link)
Well, I guess I don't think the US and Britain invaded Iraq because some people in America still believe in Satan. That was more of a, "get attacked, get really mad and attack the wrong country" kind of thing, which is a venerable American tradition which has nothing to do with believing in Beelzebub.

I kind of know the guy they got for the docu. While the modern pickings are slim indeed ... I mean, some beavus who lives in his mom's basement would have been better.

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[info]bricology
2008-11-04 03:58 am UTC (link)
"Well, I guess I don't think the US and Britain invaded Iraq because some people in America still believe in Satan. That was more of a, 'get attacked, get really mad and attack the wrong country' kind of thing, which is a venerable American tradition which has nothing to do with believing in Beelzebub."

Oh -- I get it now. I hadn't really noticed that aspect of the show.

Well, of course I'd agree that the US and Britain didn't really attack Iraq "because some people in America still believe in Satan". Having said that, it is the opinion of many Muslims that America is "the great Satan", which certainly aids in the radicalization of many Muslims. And there was no shortage of fundie Christian hyperbole during the lead-up to the war, that Islam is itself "Satanic". Nor is there a shortage of Americans who support the Bush regime and the war in Iraq, who have an apocalyptic world-view and who see America as being on "God's side", in some cosmic struggle with Israel, against Islam.

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[info]lupoleboucher
2008-11-04 07:34 am UTC (link)
Well, I do agree with that, I just don't think it's significant (those photos are hilarious!).

If people didn't believe in Satan or Jeebers, they'd believe in something equally stupid, like communism, the coming environmental apocalypse, or the blank slate theory of humanity, and be just as likely to murder others for their dumb beliefs. I don't think lack of belief makes people even a little bit more rational. In fact, I'd go further and guess new irrationalities are more dangerous than the old ones. Old beliefs are at least tested by the fact that they've been around for a while; natural selection weeds out the really virulent ideas. Islam, for example, may be an evil and bloodthirsty religion, but they never developed the hydrogen bomb, the gulag and the ICBM like the Soviets did. Sure, the Soviets never nuked us, but they certainly killed more innocent people over their 72 years than the Muslim nutbags have.

All this is MHO, and, you know, I'm no big friend of Jesus freaks. I just don't see them as being a particularly large social problem. More a source of cheap laughs and useful cannon fodder.

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[info]karinmollberg
2008-11-02 10:53 am UTC (link)
This must be some case of that butterfly messing up stuff allove the world.

Only the other day I went out to make a down-payment on something sensible these futile days; in this case a set of fake but savoir-vivre-lovely handcrafted yet gold-green baroque furniture covered with pink-gold brocate tissue for my Provence home which I don´t have as yet, and was immediately involved in a discussion about how:
a. "the virtues of Olof Palme and being kurdish are essential to all so-called western cultures"
b. how: "we kurds got stuck up in the cold mountains while you other people moved on to the west but forgot your original religion on the way as if it were litter"
c. "which is basically Zoroastrianism whatever you choose to call it nowadays but you mislayed it on your way and only manage to keep your origins showing in your languages"
d. "all cultures and religions stem from Zoroaster and by the way your women´s lib of the west is all fake; women aren´t freer here at all but only scapegoats of the men who didn´t want to share their power with women, who are the true origin of culture planting plants while your useless males were out hunting", so I took a liking to my new friend at once and had me loads of turki...sorry: kurdish! tea (much better, just like egyptian malve tea is far more healthy than cheap sudanese malve tea but both give you sweaty feet all the same) then paid for my furniture after a short introduction to the more detailed movements of the indo-european languages which made us almost relatives, see; as there is that close connection between kurds and swedes.

I went home far richer than I came!

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[info]burntfoot
2008-11-02 12:18 pm UTC (link)
Mmm, I've not seen that here in the U.K. and to be honest T.V. has declined her enormously. That kind of thing would be shown on an obscure channel like UKTV History or BBC4. But that's more to do with dumbing down as they say than fear of offending. Maybe twenty years ago it would have made it onto a mainstream channel. I think Americans have this outdated view of Britain as a land of thoughtful culture vultures. Nothing could be further from the truth.

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[info]londonsound
2008-11-02 01:36 pm UTC (link)
The UK does sometimes have really good shows - really interesting documentaries or things like The Big Read, even, where the entire nation reads books together (even if the books themselves aren't always that great) - but it also has a lot of rubbish. After all, this is the country where Big Brother can command headlines in national newspapers. For example, tonight we have this, but we also have this.

I'm looking forward to watching that documentary. I've also been meaning to read 'The Origin of Satan' by Elaine Pagels for a long time.

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[info]malkhos
2008-11-03 12:08 am UTC (link)
It always seems strange to me that everyone doesn't know about the profound influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism and Christianity, its such an essential and obvious part of scholarly discourse on the subject, but the popular presentation entirely suppresses it. Did they mention that even now there is a deposit of semen at the bottom of a lake in Iran which will someday impregnate a virgin swimming in its waters and give birth to Zoroaster's reincarnation who will usher in the final judgment?

In any case, some years ago I was employed as a substitute teacher. I had been working quite steadily but then I was given a seventh grade world cultures (god forbid it be called history) class and tasked to review the chapter on the Sassanian Empire. I was quite overjoyed at the prospect and immediately saw the main deficincy in the chapter. There was a section on the Sassanian contribution to modern American culture, but all it talked about under that heading was a precursor to the lateen sail used by Sassanian merchant vessels on the Gulf. Pretty thin stuff, so I instead explained to each of the five classes that when the Jewish elite class was trnasported to Babylon they had been part of a conflicting culture, some of whom worshipped many gods like the Greek and Romans the class had already studied, and others insisting that they should worship only the national god Yahweh--there was no hint of any devil, any afterlife, any judgment. The trauma of the conquest and deportation had settled that matter in favor of monotheism, but the Jews were to be deeply influced by the Iranians who had liberated them from the Babylonians and restored them to control of Coeleo-Syria (the Persian Emperor Cyrus had probably been the first man honored by the Jews with the honorific title Messiah--hence David Koresh, who had been in the news the year before, Koresh being Hebrew for Cyrus). When they began to write new religious texts (Daniel being the most famous; Enoch the most important), suddenly the Jewish world was filled with devils and their king Satan, working to destroy mankind against the interests of god. But they would all be washed away in a final judgment in which the world would be destroyed and recreated perfectly, and every human being would be resurrected and judged, led by a new messiah, exactly as Zoroaster had taught.

It actually surprised me when I was fired--i.e. never called on to teach again. I can only imagine the conversations had that night and the next day between parents and administrators--'That son of a bitch dared to teach my children well established scholarly facts derived form the scientific study of history that go against the simple-minded dogma I hear from my pastor!' Well, not quite like that.

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